Joshua says:
September 12, 2015 at 7:10 pm
Shlama ahki Tony…if I may call you Tony.
Ok, so there are several issues at hand here. First being the “J” issue. You are correct, Y’shua’s name just as Yahweh’s name begins with a Yud (or Yod as you have it). I am ancestrally Jewish, though I believe in Y’shua, so no rabbinical Jew would acknowledge me as a Jew. And although I am not a native Hebrew speaker, I can tell you אני מדבר עברית… I do speak and read Hebrew – and a little Aramaic. That said, I would encourage you to ask a native Hebrew speaker if the yud,or any letter in the Hebrew Aleph-bet makes the “J” sound. I promise you they will tell you that the J sound is not something you will find in either Hebrew or it’s close cousin – Aramaic.
Never-the-less, the debate over the “J” sound is moot, because (as I’m sure you know) in Greek “Jesus” is pronounced “Hey-seus”. But where exactly did this name come from?
Tarsus means Sweat of Zeus … Dionysus, the Son of Zeus … Ephesus … Jesus or Iesous … read this:
“It is known that the Greek name endings with sus, seus, and sous [which are phonetic pronunciations for the chief Greek god of Olympus] were attached by the Greeks to names and geographical areas as means to give honour to their supreme deity, Zeus.”
Dictionary of Christian Lore and Ledgend
Professor J. C. J. Metford
Now let’s deal with the Greek primacy issue. First, I have to point out that you ducked the Matt 27:9 issue where the Holy Spirit… who is leading these men to write in Greek – gets the wrong prophet…. in every manuscript. How do you deal with that? Do we ignore this blaring error on the part of the Ruach H’Kodesh? The fact that there isn’t a single extant Greek MSS that doesn’t contain such an error?
Or, what about the fact that Matt 1:17 states there are three sets of 14 generations in the genealogy of The Messiah…. have you counted them? If the New Testament was really written in Greek, then the Holy Spirit can’t add either. However, the Pishetta get’s this correct, because the “Joseph” in the lineage is not called her husband but her father/guardian. By the way,this is the only way to have a true ancestral link to the throne of David, since Joseph was not Y’shua’s biological father, nor was he descended from David – through Solomon (the only son of David who could pass on the scepter)….. but Mary was.
You also proved my point in citing the Easter/Pashca “error”. For arguments sake, lets just agree that KJV translators unintentionally replaced the SCRIPTURAL Passover with the name of the pagan fertility goddess Easter (Oster Ashtoreth, Estarte… take your pick)…. the fact that every Greek MSS contains the word Pashca is proof of Aramaic primacy. When I say Aramaic primacy, please understand, that I don’t mean the Ketubim Netzarim (Writings of the Netzarim – aka the “New Testament”) were necessarily first written in Aramaic. They may very well have been first penned in Hebrew, then Aramaic. All I mean is that there is overwhelming proof that they were translated from Aramaic into Greek. The word Pashca, my brother – is Aramaic…. yet it was left in the text by Greek translators. Interestingly, they didn’t translate from the more widely used HEBREW word for Passover which is Pesach. Peter’s name in Greek would be Petras… yet in John 1:42 we find the Aramaic word for rock – Kepha. “Eli Eli Lama Sabactani” is Aramaic… not Hebrew… of course not Greek.
Now for some very compelling evidence against Greek being spoken or written by first century Jews… good ol Josephus comes to the rescue:
Joseph ben Mattathias (nicknamed Josephus), is by far the most famous Jewish historian, intellect and writer of the 1st Century who wrote, “I have also taken a great deal of pains to obtain the learning of the Greeks, and understanding the elements of the Greek language although I have so long accustomed myself to speak our own language, that I cannot pronounce Greek with sufficient exactness: for our nation does not encourage those that learn the languages of many nations.” Josephus is a champion of the Greek Christian world, he is considered to be a secret Christian by many Christian theologians, Josephus wrote in Hebrew not in Greek. Josephus says “I cannot pronounce Greek with sufficient exactness”.
Remember Josephus is an educated 1st century Jew… just like Paul… and he doesn’t know Greek well, because Jews were discouraged from learning Greek.
How bout the “early church fathers”:
“Matthew put down the words of the Lord
in the Hebrew language, and others have translated
them, each as best he could.”
-Papias, bishop of Hierapolis, c. 150 A.D …….
“Matthew, indeed, produced his Gospel written
among the Hebrews in their own dialect.”
– Irenaeus (120-202 A.D.)
Bishop of Lions, France …….
“The first Gospel composed in the Hebrew language,
was written by Matthew…for those who came to faith
from Judaism.”
-Origen (225 A.D.) …….
“Matthew had first preached to the Hebrews,
and when he was about to go to others also,
he transmitted his Gospel in writing in his
native language”
– (Ecclesiastical History III 24, 6) …….
“Matthew collected and wrote the oracles
in the Hebrew language”
-(Ecclesiastical History, III, 39, 16).…….
How bout modern scholarship?
“both the Church Fathers as well as the recently
discovered Dead Sea Scrolls state quite clearly
and without any equivocation that Hebrew WAS the
language spoken and written at the time of the
Messiah and his Disciples.”
Dr. D. Briggs, Ph.D., Walden University
“What was the language of ordinary life of educated
native Jews in Jerusalem and Judaea in the period
from 400 BCE to 150 CE? The evidence presented by
Mishnaic Hebrew and its literature leaves no doubt
that that language was Mishnaic Hebrew.”
– The Companion Bible,
E. W. Bullinger, (Appendix 94) …….
“Hebrew continued to be used as a spoken and written
language even after the fourth century, including the
New Testament period.”
-The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church
third edition, in 1997
OUCH!
Tony… my brother, you are arguing against all the evidence and even against modern scholarship. I hope we can continue this discussion… iron sharpens iron… yes?
Take care brother,
Joshua
Ps. I have much respect for you brother… (I say this is fun) posting my reply in it’s entirety and proving you wrong on your own website… mighty upright of you. 😉
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